If you would like to know what Mason jars have to do with faith in humanity, why it is not very unlikely that we are already in a simulation, how to make a Model X dance and why flying cars are possible but not sensible, you can read it here in the third part of the transcription of the conversation between Joe Rogan and Elon Musk (YouTube video timestamp 40:40 – 1:10:56). To read the German translation and part 2 or part 4 of the interview, click on the links.

Joe Rogan: (40:40) Wasn’t there a Thoreau quote, that „Comparison is the thief of joy.“

Elon Musk: Yeah. Well, “Happiness is reality minus expectations.”

Joe Rogan: That’s great too, but the ‘comparison is the thief of joy’ really holds true to people. Is it?

Jaime: Theodore Roosevelt.

Joe Rogan: Roosevelt, fascinating. And when you’re thinking about Instagram, because what essentially Instagram is for a lot of people is you’re giving them the opportunity to be their own PR agent, and they always go towards the glamorous, you know. And when anybody does show, you know, #nofilter, I don’t know if they really do that. Like, „Oh, you’re so brave. Look at you, no makeup,“ you know. They look good anyway.

“You look great. What are you doing? Oh my God. You don’t have makeup on. You still look hot as fuck. You know what you’re doing. I know what you’re doing too.” They’re letting you know. And then, they’re feeding off that comment section, sort of sitting there like it’s a fresh stream of love. Like you’re getting right up to the sources as it comes out of the earth, and you’re sucking that sweet, sweet love water.

Elon Musk: A lot of emojis.

Joe Rogan: My concern is not so much what Instagram is. It’s that I didn’t think that people had the need for this or the expectation for some sort of technology that allows them to constantly get love and adulation from strangers, and comments, and this ability to project this sort of distorted version of who you really are.

But I worry about where it goes. Like, what’s the next one? What’s the next one? Like, where is it? Is it going to be augmented to some sort of a weird augmented or virtual sort of Instagram type situation where you’re not going to want to live in this real world, you’re going to want to interface with this sort of world that you’ve created through your social media page and some next-level thing.

Elon Musk: Yeah. Go live in the simulation.

Joe Rogan: (42:30) Some ‘Ready Player One’ type shit that’s real. That seems — we have that HTC Vive here. I’ve only done it a couple of times, quite honestly, because it kind of freaks me out.

Elon Musk: Sure.

Joe Rogan: My kids fucking love it, man. They love it. They love playing these weirdo games and walking around that headset on. But part of me watching them do it goes, „Wow, I wonder if this is like the precursor.“ Just sort of like if you look at that phone that Gordon Gekko had on the beach, and you compare that-

Elon Musk: Yes, the big cell phone.

Joe Rogan: Yeah, you compare that to like a Galaxy Note 9.

Elon Musk: Sure.

Joe Rogan: Like, how the fuck did that become that, right? And I wonder when I see this HTC Vive, I’m like, „What is that thing going to be ten years from now when we’re making fun of what it is now?“ I mean, how ingrained, and how connected and interconnected is this technology going to be in our life?

Elon Musk: It will be, at some point, indistinguishable from reality.

Joe Rogan: We will lose this. We’ll lose this. Like you and I are just looking at each other through our eyes.

Elon Musk: Are we?

Joe Rogan: I see you. You see me, I think, I hope.

Elon Musk: You think so?

Joe Rogan: I think you probably have regular eyes.

Elon Musk: This could be some simulation.

Joe Rogan: It could. Do you entertain that?

Elon Musk: Well, the argument for the simulation, I think, is quite strong because if you assume any improvements at all over time, any improvement, 1%, 0.1%, just extend the time frame, make it a thousand years, a million years. The universe is 13.8 billion years old. Civilization, if you count it, if you’re very generous, civilization is maybe 7000 or 8000 years old if you count it from the first writing. This is nothing. This is nothing.

So, if you assume any rate of improvement at all, then games will be indistinguishable from reality, or civilization will end. One of those two things will occur. Therefore, we are most likely in a simulation. Because we exist.

Joe Rogan: Or we’re on our way to one, right? Well, not just because we exist. We could most certainly be on the road. We could be on the road to that, right. It doesn’t mean that it has to have already happened.

Elon Musk: We could be in ‘Base Reality’.

Joe Rogan: We could be here now on our way to the road or on our way to the destination where this can never happen again; (45:00) where we are completely ingrained in some sort of an artificial technology or some sort of a symbiotic relationship with the internet or the next level of sharing information. But, right now, we’re not there yet. That’s possible too, right? It’s possible that a simulation is, one day, going to be inevitable, that we’re going to have something that’s indistinguishable from regular reality, but maybe we’re not there yet. That’s also possible.

Elon Musk: Yes, it is.

Joe Rogan: So, we’re not quite there yet. This is real? When I touch that wood?

Elon Musk: It feels very real.

Joe Rogan: Maybe that’s why everybody is like into like Mason jars and shit. Suede shoes. People are going to, like, craft restaurants, and they want raw wood. Everyone wants to see metal. It seems, people are like longing towards some weird log cabin type nostalgia.

Elon Musk: Sure, reality.

Joe Rogan: Yeah, like holding on. Like clinging.

Elon Musk: Sure.

Joe Rogan: Just dragging their nails through the mud like, „Don’t take me yet.“

Elon Musk: Yes. But then, people go get a mason jar with a wine stem or a handle. That’s dark. Makes me lose faith in humanity.

Joe Rogan: Mason jar, wine stem and a handle, they have those?

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: Oh, those dirty people. That’s just assholes. That’s like people make pet rocks.

Elon Musk: Rough.

Joe Rogan: Right. Some people are just assholes. They take advantage of our generous nature.

Elon Musk: It was made with a wine stem. Made with a handle.

Joe Rogan: They made it that way?

Elon Musk: Yes. They’re manufactured like that.

Joe Rogan: So, the one way, they welded it on to the mason jar. You fuck.

Elon Musk: That would be fine if there was like glued it on or something. But it was made that way.

Joe Rogan: Like trash chic. Oh, this is disgusting. Look at this. It is right there. (shows pictures)

Elon Musk: Yes, it’s pretty harsh. Yup.

Joe Rogan: This is terrible. Yeah. That’s like fake breasts that are designed to be hard. Like fake breasts from the ’60s. It’s like if you really long for the ones with ripples, here we go. Yeah. That’s almost what that is.

Elon Musk: Yeah.

Joe Rogan: What are you going to do, man? There’s nothing, you know. There’s nothing you can do to stop certain terrible ideas from propagating.

Elon Musk: Yeah. Anyway, I don’t want to sound like things are too dark because I think you kind of have to be optimistic about the future. There’s no point in being pessimistic. It’s just too negative because it is-

Joe Rogan: It doesn’t help.

Elon Musk: It doesn’t help, you know. I think you want to be — I mean, my theory is like you’d rather be optimistic. I think I’d rather be optimistic and wrong than pessimistic and right.

Joe Rogan: Right.

Elon Musk: At least, or on that side. (47:30)

Joe Rogan: Right, yeah.

Elon Musk: Because if you’re pessimistic, it’s going to be miserable.

Joe Rogan: Yeah. Yeah, nobody wants to be around you anyway if it’s the end of the world. You’re like, „I fucking told you, bro.“

Elon Musk: Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan: The world is ending. Yeah. It is what it is for all.

Elon Musk: Enjoy the journey.

Joe Rogan: Right. If you really want to get morose, I mean, it is what it is for all of us anyway. We’re all going to go unless something changes.

Elon Musk: Yeah. I mean, ultimately, you know, even if we just sort of existed as humans forever, we’d still eventually be like the heat death of the universe a zillion years from now.

Joe Rogan: Right, even if we get it past the sun.

Elon Musk: Yeah.

Joe Rogan: If we figure out a way past the sun running out of juice.

Elon Musk: Eventually, it’s going to end. It’s just a question of when.

Joe Rogan: Right.

Elon Musk: So, it really is all about the journey.

Joe Rogan: Or transcendence from whatever we are now into something that doesn’t worry about death.

Elon Musk: The universe, as we know it, will dissipate into a fine mist of cold nothingness eventually.

Joe Rogan: And then, someone’s going to bottle it and put a fragrance to it, sell it to French people in another dimension.

Elon Musk: It’s just a very long time.

Joe Rogan: Yeah.

Elon Musk: So, I think it’s really just about, how can we make it last longer.

Joe Rogan: Are you a proponent of the multi-universe theory? Do you believe that there are many, many universes, and that even if this one fades out that there are other ones that are starting fresh right now, and there’s an infinite number of them, and they’re just constantly in a never-ending cycle of birth and death?

Elon Musk: I think most likely. This is just about probability. There are many, many simulations. These simulations, we might as well call them reality, or we could call them the multiverse.

Joe Rogan: These simulations, you believe are created, like, someone has manufactured-

Elon Musk: They’re running on the substrate.

Joe Rogan: So-

Elon Musk: That substrate is probably boring.

Joe Rogan: Boring?

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: How so?

Elon Musk: Well, when we create a simulation like a game or a movie, it’s the distillation of what’s interesting about life. You know, it takes a year to shoot an action movie. And then, that’s all to slow down into two or three hours. So, let me tell you, if you see an action movie being filmed, it’s boring. It’s super boring.

There’s like lots of takes. Everything’s on a green screen. (50:00) It looks pretty goofy. It doesn’t look cool. But once you had the CGI and have great editing, it’s amazing. So, I think, most likely, if we’re in a simulation, it’s really boring outside the simulation. Because why would you make a simulation that’s boring? You’d make simulation way more interesting than base reality.

Joe Rogan: That is if this right now is a simulation.

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: And, ultimately, inevitably, as long as we don’t die or get hit by a meteor, we’re going to create some sort of simulation if we continue on the same technological path we’re on right now.

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: But we might not be there yet. So, it might not be a simulation here. But it most likely is you feel other places.

Elon Musk: This notion of a place or where is-

Joe Rogan: Flawed?

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: Flawed perception.

Elon Musk: Like that, if you have that, sort of, that Vive you have, that’s made by Valve, and it’s really Valve that made it. HTC did the hardware, but it’s really a Valve thing.

Joe Rogan: Makers of Half-Life.

Elon Musk: Yes. Valve. Great company.

Joe Rogan: Great company.

Elon Musk: When you’re in that virtual reality, which is only going to get better, where are you? Where are you really?

Joe Rogan: Right.

Elon Musk: You aren’t anywhere.

Joe Rogan: Well, whereas-

Elon Musk: You’re in the computer.

Joe Rogan: You know, what defines where you are?

Elon Musk: Exactly.

Joe Rogan: Right.

Elon Musk: It’s your perception.

Joe Rogan: Is it your perceptions or is it, you know, a scale that we have under your butt. You’re right here. I’ve measured you. You’re the same weight as you were when you left. But meanwhile, your experience is probably different-

Elon Musk: Why do you think you’re where you are right now? You might not be.

Joe Rogan: I’ll spark up a joint if you keep talking. Your manager is going to come in here. We might have to lock the door.

Elon Musk: Right now, you think you’re in a studio in LA.

Joe Rogan: That’s what I heard.

Elon Musk: You might be in a computer.

Joe Rogan: Oh listen, man, I think about this all the time. Yeah, I mean, it’s unquestionable that one day that will be the case, as long as we keep going, as long as nothing interrupts us, and if we start from scratch, and, you know, we’re single-celled organisms all over again. And then, millions and millions of years later, we become the next thing that is us with creativity and the ability to change its environment.

(52:30) It’s going to keep monkeying with things until it figures out a way to change reality. To change — I mean, almost like punch a hole through what is this thing into what it wants it to be and create new things. And then, those new things will intersect with other people’s new things, and there will be this ultimate pathway of infinite ideas and expression all through technology.

Elon Musk: Yeah.

Joe Rogan: And then, we’re going to wonder like, „Why are we here? What are we doing?“

Elon Musk: Let’s find out.

Joe Rogan: Well-

Elon Musk: I mean, I think we should take the actions, the set of actions that are most likely to make the future better.

Joe Rogan: Yes, right.

Elon Musk: And then, we evaluate those actions to make sure that it’s true.

Joe Rogan: Well, I think there’s a movement to that. I mean, in terms of like a social movement. I think some of it’s misguided, and some of it’s exaggerated, and there’s a lot of people that are fighting for their side out there. But it seems like the general trend of, like, social awareness seems to be much more heightened now than has ever been in any other time in history because of our ability to express ourselves instantaneously to each other through Facebook, or Twitter, or what have you. And that the trend is to abandon preconceived notions, abandon prejudice, abandon discrimination, and promote kindness and happiness as much as possible. Looking at this knife? Somebody gave it to me. Sorry.

Elon Musk: Yeah. What is it?

Joe Rogan: My friend Donnie, he brought this with him, and it just stayed here. I have a real samurai sword if you want to play with that. I know you’re into weapons. That’s from the 1500s. The samurai sword at the end of the table.

Elon Musk: Really?

Joe Rogan: Yeah.

Elon Musk: That’s cool.

Joe Rogan: I’ll grab it. Hold on. (passes Elon the sword) Yeah, that’s a legit samurai sword from an actual samurai from the 1500s. If you pull out that blade, that blade was made the old way where a master craftsman…

Elon Musk: Folded metal?

Joe Rogan: …folded that metal and hammered it down over and over again over a long period of time, and honed that blade into what it is now. What’s crazy is that more than 500 years later, that thing is still pristine. I mean, whoever took care of that and passed it down to the next person who took care of it, (55:00) and you know until it got to the podcast room, it’s pretty fucking crazy.

Elon Musk: Yeah.

Joe Rogan: One day, someone’s going to be looking at a Tesla like that. Yeah, these fucking backdoors, they pop up sideways like a Lamborghini.

Elon Musk: You should see what a Tesla can do. You didn’t. You should. I’ll show you afterwards.

Joe Rogan: Well, I’ve driven one. I love them.

Elon Musk: Yeah, but most people don’t know what it can do.

Joe Rogan: In terms of, like, ludicrous mode? In terms of, like, driving super fast and irresponsibly on public roads, is that what you’re saying?

Elon Musk: Well, any car can do that.

Joe Rogan: Yeah. What can it do that I need to know about?

Elon Musk: I mean, the Model X can do this ballet thing to the Trans-Siberian Orchestra. It’s pretty cool.

Joe Rogan: Wait, it dances?

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: Legitimate, like it goes around?

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: Why would you program that into a car?

Elon Musk: It seemed like fun.

Joe Rogan: That’s what I get about you. That’s what’s weird. Like when you showed up here, you were all smiles, and you pull out a fucking blowtorch or ‘not a blowtorch’, but I’m like, „Look at this dude“…

Elon Musk: Not a flamethrower.

Joe Rogan: Not a flamethrower. Like, „He’s having fun.“

Elon Musk: I want to be clear, it’s definitely not a flamethrower.

Joe Rogan: But you’re having fun. Like this thing, you know, you program a car to do a ballet dance, you’re having fun.

Elon Musk: It’s great.

Joe Rogan: But how do you have the time to do that? I don’t understand. While you’re digging holes under the earth, and sending rockets into space, and powering people in Australia, like, how the fuck do you have time to make the car dance ballet?

Elon Musk: Well, I mean, in that case, there were some engineers at Tesla that said, „You know, what if we make this car dance and play music?“ I was like, „That sounds great. Please do it. Let’s try to get it done in time for Christmas.“ We did.

Joe Rogan: Is there a concern about someone just losing their mind and making it do that on the highway?

Elon Musk: No, it won’t do that.

Joe Rogan: What if it’s in bumper-to-bumper traffic?

Elon Musk: Nope.

Joe Rogan: No, it won’t do it?

Elon Musk: No. Actually, you have to…- it’s an Easter egg.

Joe Rogan: Oh, it’s an Easter egg.

Elon Musk: Yeah, that’s why people don’t know about it. Including people that have the car. It’s like it can do lots of things, lots of things.

Joe Rogan: Once Reddit gets a hold of it, everyone’s going to know already.

Elon Musk: You just have to – Everyone — if you search for it on the internet, you will find out. But people don’t know that they should even search for it.

Joe Rogan: Well, they do now.

Elon Musk: Yes. There’s so many things about the Model X, and the Model S, and the Model 3 that people don’t know about. (57:30) We should probably do a video or something to explain it because I have close friends of mine, and I say, „Do you know the car can do this?“ and they’re like, „Nope.“

Joe Rogan: Do you want to do a video of that? Do you like the fact that some people don’t know?

Elon Musk: No, I think it’s probably not. We should tell people.

Joe Rogan: Yeah, probably.

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: That would help your product. I mean, it’s not like you don’t sell enough of them. You sell almost too many of them, right.

Elon Musk: I mean, I think a Tesla is the most fun thing you could possibly buy ever. That’s what it’s meant to be. Our goal is to make — It’s not exactly a car. It’s actually a thing to maximize enjoyment, make as maximum fun.

Joe Rogan: Okay. Electronic, like big screen, laptop, ridiculous speed, handling, all that stuff.

Elon Musk: Yeah. And we’re going to put video games in it.

Joe Rogan: You are?

Elon Musk: Yeah.

Joe Rogan: Is that wise? What kind of video games? Candy Crush?

Elon Musk: You won’t be able to drive while you’re playing the video game. But, like, for example, we’re just putting the Atari emulator in it. So, we’ll play a Missile Command, and Lunar Lander, and a bunch of other things. Yeah.

Joe Rogan: That sounds cool.

Elon Musk: It’s pretty fun.

Joe Rogan: I like that.

Elon Musk: Yeah. I mean, we improved the interface for Missile Command because it’s too hard with the old trackball. So, this is a touch screen version of Missile Command. So, you have a chance.

Joe Rogan: Do you — You have an old car, don’t you? Don’t you have an old Jaguar?

Elon Musk: Yeah. How do you know that? I have a ’61 series 1 E-Type Jaguar.

Joe Rogan: I love cars.

Elon Musk: It’s great.

Joe Rogan: Yeah, I love old cars.

Elon Musk: Yeah, the only two gasoline cars I have are that and an old — like a Ford Model T that a friend of mine gave me. Those are my only two gasoline cars.

Joe Rogan: Is the Ford Model T all stocked? Oh, there’s your car. Look at that. (shows picture)

Elon Musk: I have the convertible with a…

Joe Rogan: That is a gorgeous car.

Elon Musk: …soft top.

Joe Rogan: God, that’s a good looking car.

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: Is that yours? (shows more pictures)

Elon Musk: That is — It’s not mine. It’s extremely close to mine, but I don’t have a front license plate on mine.

Joe Rogan: It’s a beautiful car. They nailed it. That new type-

Elon Musk: Mine looks like that.

Joe Rogan: God, they nailed that.

Elon Musk: That’s what mine looks like. Maybe it is mine. (1:00:00)

Joe Rogan: There’s certain iconic shapes.

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: And there’s something about those cars, too. They’re not as capable, not nearly as capable as a Tesla, but there’s something really satisfying about the mechanical aspect of like feeling the steering and the grinding of the gears and the shifting. There’s something about those that’s extremely satisfying even though they’re not that competent. Like I have a 1993 Porsche 964. It’s like a lightweight. It’s not an RS America. It’s not very fast. It’s not like in comparison to a Tesla or anything like that. But the thing about it is like it’s mechanical, you feel it.

Elon Musk: Sure.

Joe Rogan: It’s like, it gives you this weird thrill like you’re on this clunky ride, and there’s all this feedback. There’s something to that.

Elon Musk: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah. My E-Type is like basically no electronics.

Joe Rogan: Yeah. So, you like that, but you also like electronics.

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: Like your Teslas, it’s like the far end of electronics.

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: It drives itself.

Elon Musk: It’s driving itself better every day. We’re about to release the software that will enable you to just turn it on, and it’ll drive from highway on-ramp to highway exit, do lane changes, overtake other cars-

Joe Rogan: Jesus.

Elon Musk: To go from one interchange to the next. If you get on, say, the 405, get off 300 miles later, and go through several highway interchanges, and just overtake other cars, and hook into the nav system, and then-.

Joe Rogan: And you’re just meditating, om.

Elon Musk: Yeah.

Joe Rogan: While your car is just traveling.

Elon Musk: It’s kind of eerie. It’s kind of eerie.

Joe Rogan: What did you think when you saw that video of that dude fallen asleep behind the wheel? I’m sure you’ve seen it, the one in San Francisco. It’s like right outside of San Jose, the dude’s out cold, like this. And the car’s an inch bumper-to-bumper in traffic moving along. You’ve seen it, right?

Elon Musk: Yeah. We changed the software. That’s, I think, an old video. We changed software. If you don’t touch the wheel, it will gradually slow down, and put the emergency lights on, and wake you up.

Joe Rogan: Oh, that’s hilarious.

Elon Musk: Yeah.

Joe Rogan: Can you choose what voice wakes you up?

Elon Musk: Well, it’s sort of more of a — It sort of honks.

Joe Rogan: It honks?

Elon Musk: Yeah.

Joe Rogan: There should be like, „Wake up, fuckface. You’re endangering your fellow humans.“

Elon Musk: We could gently wake you up with a (1:02:30) sultry voice.

Joe Rogan: That would be good, like, something with a southern accent. „Hey, wake up.“

Elon Musk: Wake up, sunshine.

Joe Rogan: Hey, sweetie.

Elon Musk: Exactly.

Joe Rogan: Why don’t you wake up?

Elon Musk: You could pick whatever you want. Yes.

Joe Rogan: Yeah, I choose the Australian girl from Siri. I like her voice.

Elon Musk: Do you want it seductive?

Joe Rogan: It’s my favorite. I like Australian.

Elon Musk: What flavor? Do what you want it to be angry. It could be anything.

Joe Rogan: You want those Australian prison lady genes. Now, when you program something like that, is this in response to a concern, or is it your own… Do look at it and go, „Hey, they shouldn’t just be able to fall asleep. Let’s wake them up.“

Elon Musk: Yeah, it’s like — You know, people are falling asleep. We better do something about that.

Joe Rogan: Right. But when you first released it, you didn’t consider it, right? You’re just like, „Well, no one’s going to just sleep.“

Elon Musk: People fall asleep in their cars all the time. They crash.

Joe Rogan: Yeah, it’s horrible.

Elon Musk: At least our car doesn’t crash. That’s better. It’s better not to crash. Imagine if that guy had fallen asleep in a gasoline car. They do it all the time.

Joe Rogan: For sure, yeah.

Elon Musk: They would crash into somebody.

Joe Rogan: Yeah.

Elon Musk: And, in fact, the thing that really, you know, got me to — It’s like, „Man, we better get autopilot going and get it out there.“ A guy was in an early Tesla driving down the highway, and he fell asleep, and he ran over a cyclist and killed him. I was like, „Man, if we had autopilot, he might have fallen asleep, but, at least, he wouldn’t run over that cyclist.“

Joe Rogan: So, how did you implement it? Did you just use cameras and programmed the system so that if it sees images, it slows down?

Elon Musk: Yeah.

Joe Rogan: Is the person who’s in control of it allowed to program how fast it goes?

Elon Musk: Yes. You can program it to be more or less, like more conservative or like more aggressive driver. And you can say what speed you want it to — What speed is okay.

Joe Rogan: I know you have ludicrous mode. Do you have douchebag mode? It just cuts people off.

Elon Musk: Well, for lane changes, it’s tricky because if you’re in like LA, like unless you’re pretty aggressive, right, it’s hard to change lanes sometimes.

Joe Rogan: You can’t. It’s hard to be ‘sat nam’. It’s hard to be ‘namaste’ out here in LA. If you want to hit that Santa Monica Boulevard off-ramp…(1:05:00)

Elon Musk: I mean, you’ve got to be a little pushy on the freeway.

Joe Rogan: You’ve got to be a little pushy, yeah, especially when people are angry. If they’re a little angry, they don’t want to let you in; they speed up.

Elon Musk: Sometimes, I think, people overall are pretty nice on the highway, even in LA, but sometimes they’re not.

Joe Rogan: Do you think the Neuralink will help that?

Elon Musk: Probably.

Joe Rogan: Everybody will be locked in together in this hive mind.

Elon Musk: Tunnels will help it.  

Joe Rogan: That will help a lot.

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: How many of those can you put in there?

Elon Musk: Nice thing about tunnels is you can go 3D. So, you can go many levels.

Joe Rogan: Until you hit hell.

Elon Musk: Yeah, but you can go — You can have 100 levels of tunnel. No problems.

Joe Rogan: Jesus Christ. I don’t want to be on 99. That would be a negative 99 floors.

Elon Musk: This is one of the fundamental things people don’t appreciate about tunnels is that it’s not like roads. The fundamental issue with roads is that you have a 2D transport system and a 3D living and workspace environment. So, you’ve got all these tall buildings or concentrated work environments. And then, you want to go into those like 2D transport system with…

Joe Rogan: Hugely inefficient.

Elon Musk: … pretty low density because cars are spaced out pretty far. And so, that, obviously, is not going to work. You’re going to have traffic guaranteed. But if you can go 3D on your transport system, then you can solve all traffic. And you can either go 3D up with a flying car, or you can go 3D down with tunnels. You can have as many tunnel levels as you want, and you can arbitrarily relieve any amount of traffic. You can go further down with tunnels than you can go up with buildings. You’re 10,000 feet down if you want. I wouldn’t recommend it, but…

Joe Rogan: What was that movie with — What’s his face? Bradley — Not Bradley Cooper, Christian? No. What the fuck is his name? Batman. Who is Batman?

Jaime: Christian Bale.

Joe Rogan: Christian Bale, where they fought dragons. Him and Matthew McConaughey. He went down deep into the earth. How deep can you go?

Elon Musk: I don’t think that was Batman.

Joe Rogan: Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was.

Elon Musk: Batman fought dragons? I don’t-

Joe Rogan: No, it wasn’t Batman, but it’s Christian Bale.

Jaime: ‘Reign of Fire’.

Elon Musk: Okay.

Joe Rogan: Never saw that?

Elon Musk: No.

Joe Rogan: Terrible. Terrible, but good. I would look at it some time.

Elon Musk: I wouldn’t recommend drilling super far down, but the Earth is a big…

Joe Rogan: Yeah, but you can’t drill deep. It gets hot, right?

Elon Musk: Earth is a giant ball of lava with a thin crust on the top, which we think of as like the surface, (1:07:30) this thin crust. And it’s mostly just a big bowl of lava. That’s Earth, but 10,000 feet is not a big deal.

Joe Rogan: Have you given any consideration whatsoever to the Flat Earth movement?

Elon Musk: I think that’s a troll situation.

Joe Rogan: Oh, it’s not. No, it’s not. You would like to think that…

Elon Musk: Okay.

Joe Rogan: … because you’re a super genius. But I, as a normal person, I know there’s people  way dumber than me. And they really, really believe. They watch YouTube videos, which go on uninterrupted, and spew out a bunch of fucking fake facts very eloquently and articulately. And they really believe. These people really believe.

Elon Musk: I mean, if it works for them, sure. Fine.

Joe Rogan: It’s weird though, right, that in this age where, you know, there’s ludicrous mode in your car, goes 1.9 seconds, 0 to 60.

Elon Musk: That’s 2.2.

Joe Rogan: 2.2. Which one’s 1.9? The Roadster?

Elon Musk: The next-generation Roadster. Standard edition.

Joe Rogan: Yeah, I’m on top of this shit. Standard edition.

Elon Musk: Yeah. So, it’s without the performance package.

Joe Rogan: What performance package? What the fuck do you need?

Elon Musk: We put rocket thrusters on it.

Joe Rogan: For real?

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: What are they going to burn?

Elon Musk: Nothing. Ultrahigh pressure compressed air.

Joe Rogan: Whoa. Just air?

Elon Musk: Just cold gas thrusters.

Joe Rogan: Then, do you do to have the air tanks or they’re sucking air out of…?

Elon Musk: Yeah. It has an electric pump.

Joe Rogan: Whoa.

Elon Musk: Pump it up like 10,000 psi.

Joe Rogan: And how fast are we talking? Zero to 60.

Elon Musk: How fast you want to go?

Joe Rogan: I want to go-

Elon Musk: We could make this thing fly.

Joe Rogan: I want to go back in time.

Elon Musk: I can make it fly.

Joe Rogan: You make it fly?

Elon Musk: Sure.

Joe Rogan: Do you anticipate that as being — I mean, you’re talking about the tunnels and then flying cars. Do you really think that’s going to be real?

Elon Musk: Too noisy, and there’s too much airflow. So, the final issue with flying cars — I mean, if you get like one of those like toy drones, think of how loud those are and how much air they blow. Now, imagine if that’s like a thousand times heavier. This is not going to make your neighbors happy. Your neighbors are not going to be happy if you land a flying car in your backyard.

Joe Rogan: It will be very helicopter-like.

Elon Musk: Or on your roof. It’s just really going to be like, „What the hell. That was annoying.“ Like, if you want a flying car, just put some wheels on a helicopter.

Joe Rogan: Is there a way around that? Like what if they (1:10:00) figure out some sort of magnetic technology, like all those Bob Lazar type characters who were thinking that was a part of the UFO technology they were doing at Area 51? Remember, didn’t they have some thoughts about magnetics?

Elon Musk: Nope.

Joe Rogan: No? Bullshit?

Elon Musk: Yes.

Joe Rogan: Really?

Elon Musk: Yeah. There’s a fundamental momentum exchange with the air. So, you must accelerate. You have a mass, and you have gravitational acceleration. Your mass times gravity must equal the mass of airflow times acceleration of that airflow to have a neutral force. MG=MA. And then you won’t move. If MG is greater than MA, you will go down. And if MA is greater than MG, you will go up. That’s how it works.

Joe Rogan: There’s just no way around that?

Elon Musk: There is definitely no way around it. (01:10:56)